Suggests U.S. Bombed Belgrade's
Embassy On Purpose
First U.S. Interview In More Than A
Decade
BEUDAUHE,
China, Sept. 3, 2000
CBS
Jiang
Zemin discussed a wide range of topics during the interview with
Wallace.
(CBS)
On the eve of his visit to the United States, China's president, Jiang Zemin,
sat down for a rare interview with Mike Wallace.
In a wide-ranging and surprisingly frank interview, Jiang talked about many
topics, including relations between the United States and China, Tiananmen
Square and American morals.
The
two met recently inside the presidential compound in the seaside resort of
Beidaihe, in what Chinese officials say is the first visit there by a Western
television news crew.
Jiang, the leader of one of every five people on the planet, has not been
interviewed for U.S. television in more than a decade. Wallace's interview
will air two days before Jiang is scheduled to visit the United States.
Recently, one of China's government newspapers, The China Daily, called
the United States, "a threat to world peace." Asked if he
agrees with that assessment, Jiang treaded lightly.
"Candidly speaking, maybe it is because of the economic power and
leading edge in science and technology that the United States enjoys, that
more often than not [the United States] tends to overestimate itself and its
position in the world," he said. "But today I want to convey
a nice message to the American people, so I don't want to use too many tough
words in our talk."
Asked about the presidential election, and future U.S.-Chinese relations,
Jiang said that he has a lot of friends among both parties.
"So you gave money to both their campaigns?" Wallace asked.
"Are you just joking?" Jiang responded. "We have
never done such things. I have read the campaign platforms of both parties,
and I believe whoever becomes president will try to improve the friendly
relations between China and the United States for this is in the strategic
interest of the whole world. Someone asked me not to pay attention to
unfriendly remarks candidates might make about China during the campaign
because once elected they will be friendly. I only hope that's true."
Prior to the interview, Jiang had agreed to give short answers so the two men
could cover more ground. When Wallace reminded him of that, a smiling Jiang
was ready with a reply, pointing out that his answers had also been long. "I
think my answer is roughly the same length as your question."
Beidaihe, the site of the interview, has been called China's Camp David.
Beidaihe is where the country's leaders meet in private every August to
develop their plans for the coming year. The president agreed to speak
candidly with 60 Minutes, emphasizing that he wants better
relations with America.
"I hope to convey through your program my best wishes to the American
people," he said.
Jiang said that relations between the two countries are, on the whole, good.
But he compared Chinese-U.S. relations to "nature," because
of its variability: "Our relations have experienced wind, rain, and
sometimes clouds or even dark clouds. However, sometimes it clears up. We all
sincerely hope to build a constructive partnership between China and the
United States."
"That's spoken like a real politician," Wallace responded. "There's
no candor in it."
"I don't think politician is a very nice word," Jiang said.
"No, it's not a nice word," Wallace said. "It is a
diplomatic word in this case."
Although Jiang is gregarious and likes attention, he has not given an extended
interview to an American television reporter for 10 years. He says this is
partly because Americans refuse to believe that the vast majority of Chinese
are actually satisfied with one-party rule. Jiang, in fact, disagreed strongly
when Wallace called China a dictatorship.
"Your way of describing what things are like in China is as absurd as
what the Arabian Nights may sound like," Jiang said. "The
National Peoples Congress selects the Central Committee of the Communist Party
and the Central Committee has a Politburo. And the Politburo has a standing
committee of which I'm a member. And no decision is made unless all members
agree."
Wallace asked Jiang if he admired the courage of the student who stood down
the tank during the student uprising in Tiananmen Square.
"He was never arrested," Jiang said. "I don't know
where he is now. Looking at the picture I know he definitely had his own
ideas."
"You have not answered the question, Mr. President," Wallace
said. "Did a part of Jiang Zemin admire his courage?"
"I know what you are driving at, but what I want to emphasize is that
we fully respect every citizen's right to freely express his wishes and
desires," Jiang said. "But I do not favor any flagrant
opposition to government actions during an emergency. The tank stopped and did
not run the young man down."
"I'm not talking about the tank," Wallace said. "I'm
talking about that man's heart, that man's courage, that man, that lonely man,
standing against that."
Wallace then mentioned that Jiang himself had been a student protestor in
Shanghai, during World War II. Was there any parallel?
"In the 1989 disturbance we truly understood the passion of students
who were calling for greater democracy and freedom," Jiang said. "In
fact, we have always been working to improve our system of democracy. But we
could not possibly allow people with ulterior motives to use the students to
overthrow the government under the pretext of democracy and freedom."
A month after Tiananmen, Jiang wrote a speech in which he said, "Corruption
is growing. If all our party and our government organs use that power to seek
material benefits, isn't this just like fleecing the people in broad
daylight?"
Wallace pointed out that the Tiananmen demonstrators had also been protesting
against corruption. Had they had an effect on the Party, Wallace asked.
"I hate corruption," Jiang said. "You are right that
during the 1989 disturbance students were changing slogans against corruption,
so on this specific point the Party shares the same position as the
students."
As an aside, and to underline his credentials as a student demonstrator in
times past, the president himself sang a protest song he had used back in 1943
against Japanese troops who were occupying parts of China: "Arise Fellow
Students to Defend the Motherland."
The president's aides suggested it would be unfair to show pictures of the
violence at Tiananmen Square because, they say, Jiang Zemin had nothing to do
with it. But they were glad to give 60 Minutes pictures of their
embassy in Belgrade, which had been demolished by American bombers, during
NATO's air war last year.
When asked if he believed that the United States purposely bombed the Chinese
Embassy in Belgrade, Jiang answered obliquely.
"The United States has state-of-the-art technology," he said.
"So all the explanations that they have given us for what they call a
mistaken bombing are absolutely unconvincing."
"The identification marks of the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade were too
clear for people to miss," he continued. "So why has there
been such an incident? It is still a question. But we have decided to look
forward, to improve China-U.S. relations."
Afterward, the U.S. government had tried to convince China that the bombing
had been a horrible mistake.
"President Clinton apologized to me for the bombing, many times, on
the telephone," Jiang said. "I told him, since you represent
Americans and I Chinese, it would be impossible for us to reach total
agreement on this issue."
To find out what Jiang thinks about American morals, the Gettysburg Address
and the Falun Gong, go to the second part of the
story.